In my quest for the Heroic Life I’ve lost a lot of weight. The bulk of it, about 50 pounds, I worked off in 2010-11. (Before and after pictures here.) Since then I’ve continued dropping the weight, albeit more slowly. Now I’m below my old college weight.
And it’s time to work on sexy.
Beliefs about Fat
I do actually feel sexier now than before. I’m not just thinner, I’ve also built up stronger muscles, especially in the thighs, butt, and abs. Like most people I’ve always associated a thinner, fitter build with “sexy.” I know that in times past a plumper build was sometimes considered sexy but that seems to apply more to women than men. When I look at the artwork of past ages I see two kinds of male figures shown over and over: lean muscular athletic guys, and nobles who had so much power no one could make fun of their physique anyway.
I’ve been overweight since about age 12. It was worst in my mid-20s. So the feelings of being thinner, having an easy time moving and seeing clothes fit my figure are all new sensations. I’m still not lean but I intend to continue reshaping my body.
A good way to explain my goal might be: when I talk about searching for the Heroic Life, I intend to look the part.
But with this image of the lean, muscular male figure, I’m buying into a lot of societal baggage. I personally don’t feel any shame about my body, and I find that changes in diet and exercise have an impact. That’s not true for everyone, and it leaves me with questions.
Fat Acceptance?
There’s a movement known as the Fat Acceptance movement that you may or may not have heard of. I’ve been familiar with it since at least 2007 when my feminist friends explained it to me.
The idea is simple. Media tells us we’re really fat and it’s terrible. This is partly based on the very real trend of higher obesity rates. But it’s also part of an effort to sell us all kinds of crap to help us lose the weight. Crap that we really don’t need and a lot of the time it doesn’t deliver results. But it’s profitable.
What’s good for sales is not always good for mental health. People who are told they’re not good enough often end up feeling—wait for it—not good enough.
The idea of the fat acceptance movement is to just accept ourselves the way we are. If you weigh 220 pounds and your doctor says you should be 150, maybe just be happy with 220. Or maybe put a moderate, sustainable effort in and feel great at 200 instead of killing yourself to get to 150.
It’s hard to argue with reasoning like that. But I’m about to.
I like seeing people love who they are, but it can also be a force of complacency. Most people can indeed get fitness results from diet changes and exercise. Telling them they’re good enough as they are is a pro in the mental health column, but potentially a con in the physical health column. There are two concerns I have with the idea of fat acceptance:
- There are health problems associated with obesity. Some are exaggerated or imagined and advertisers definitely hit the button too hard, but I question whether people should be told to accept a higher-risk health condition.
- I tend to favor self-development. There is a type of happiness to be found in accepting circumstance, but also a type of happiness in overcoming adversity or personal obstacles and achieving something hard.
Please Help Me
I don’t know much about the idea of fat acceptance. I’m concerned about the two things I listed above but I may be totally missing the mark. Anything that helps people live happy, self-affirming lives is valuable, and I don’t want to unfairly misunderstand it.
I know we have at least one fat acceptance advocate who’s a reader here. And as a whole my readers seem to be full of useful information.
So educate me.
Are my concerns above well founded, or not? Does fat acceptance address those concerns, and how? Does the value of self-acceptance outweigh the health concerns? Are there other ways to address the painful issue of obesity—or am I way off the mark?
Post a comment and school me. And please, tweet or share this post. The more people involved in the conversation the better.
I’m writing my first novella. It has magic spells, happy corn, sad farmers, and desperate fucking. Lúnasa Days.
Drew Jacob, Rogue Priest
February 29th, 2012 at 1:26 pm
I haven’t heard of the Fat Acceptance movement up until now and upon hearing about it I don’t think that I truly agree with the approach. I can understand the need to combat the “popular” ideals about what is sexy in our culture (personally I am disgusted by wafer thin models), but fat acceptance?
I feel like working towards a mentality where being fat is a completely acceptable lifestyle is very unhealthy. Completely the wrong way to go about it. Proper education and reinforcement of a healthy lifestyle is what is needed. That is if it will ever truly get “fixed”.
As for myself, I am currently working towards getting myself back into shape. After a hard year and a few months that began with a lay-off (first ever) I found myself with about 45-50 extra pounds. At 6 feet tall, I usually sit at about 215-220lbs and consider that my healthy weight. Now if we went by the age/height charts, they would say that I am overweight at 215.
While my progress as of late has been slowed by a stress fracture in my left knee, I am still making progress. I am down a total of 7 pounds on the scale but that doesn’t account for the muscle I have added over the past two months (almost 2 months).
If you want to know more, head over to my blog and take a read to see the workout plan (which has changed several times now) that I am following. This spring my friend and I are planning on upping the game a bit and doing some more intense workout routines. Tire flipping, sled dragging . . . etc.
February 29th, 2012 at 4:31 pm
Sean, I have to reply to this, because I see it a lot:
“Proper education and reinforcement of a healthy lifestyle is what is needed. That is if it will ever truly get “fixed”.”
Do you believe that people who are fat have not had this education? There are many people who have gone through diet after diet, only to feel like a failure, that can quote you proper nutrition guidelines and exercise regimens like you wouldn’t *believe*. I could do it.
Please don’t believe that I’m fat because I don’t know I’m fat, or because I don’t know how to eat, or because I don’t know how to exercise. I eat fine, all homecooked from scratch meals (due to my partner’s allergies), lift weights 3 times a week, and walk to and from work 5 days a week (average of 3 miles/daily once you count in the walks I take during the work day).
And yet, I’m fat. Does that sound like I need more education to you?
I’m sorry if this sounds harsh; I’m in a bit of a hurry, and I somewhat resent the impression that I need to be “fixed.”
February 29th, 2012 at 4:39 pm
LOL! No offense taken Colleen. Sometimes harshness is what is needed. Especially for those that don’t truly understand that there is no single answer for a situation such as health and weight. None of us are exactly the same and there are varying factors that get put into play that I think medical doctors haven’t found an answer for.
My apologies if I came of as “one of those” people who judge people and think that everyone should be fit and thin. In fact I do not believe that. I know several people that are in similar situations such as yourself. One of which is my mother and another a sister. They are some of the healthiest people I know. They eat better than most nutritionists, and exercise more than most of the general population. Yet if someone were to judge them by their body, they would be dead wrong.
Thank you for speaking up.
March 1st, 2012 at 1:10 am
Sean, thanks for your reply. I’ve read your blog a bit over the past month or two. When I first read about your workout program I’ll admit my immediate reaction was I felt it was too aggressive and that you were risking injury.
Of course it isn’t my place to jump in and tell you how to work out. But now that I hear you have a stress fracture and are planning to ramp it up even more once you’re better…
Well, please be careful my friend.
March 1st, 2012 at 7:50 am
I will definitely be careful. I’ve had enough surgeries or injuries to know better than to be foolish with my body.
If I had stayed with what I knew worked I would have been just fine. With the stress fracture it was caused by a loose track on a treadmill. Was never a runner before and thought I would give it a go. Now I know better than to run on a treadmill. If I ever do it again, I’ll probably do it the old fashioned way and run for real. . . on the ground.
As for “ramping it up” again, that won’t be until well after the fracture is healed and I have completed several stages of physical therapy, had another MRI, and my ortho’s sign off to do such a program. And in truth it’s not really ramping it up. It is more of a change of format. Taking it from lifting dumbbells and barbell weights to outdoors and doing functional movements that incorporate more than one muscle group to complete the movement.
March 1st, 2012 at 11:39 am
Good to hear it Sean. After I broke my ankle I’m always extra careful about what kind of training I do. I agree doing real stuff outdoors is way more fun though.
February 29th, 2012 at 1:45 pm
I’ve all kinds of thoughts about this. And all of them are conflicted and divided.
As a fat woman in my 50s who spent the majority of her adulthood overweight, I can appreciate and understand the desire of something like “Fat Acceptance.”
As a woman in my 50s with joint problems whose lost almost 100 lbs in the past year and now *feel* comfortable for the first time in decades, I’m worried about the words “Fat Acceptance.” I’m still overweight by about 80 lbs (and still working on it). My resting heart rate was consistently in the 90s until recently. My blood pressure, while still in the high end of normal, was beginning to edge up. And my joints were certainly complaining, compounding the problem since it hurt to move. Actually the words I used was that it hurt to exist.
I was not overweight as a child. I gained a little weight in adolescence, but not so much that I was truly overweight. I was just made to feel like I was overweight since I was a size 10. I didn’t truly start to put on the weight until I started having kids and ended up in a miserable work existence. (One of the reasons why I follow your adventures since I’ve experienced the other extreme end of pure 24×7 work nightmare. Not anymore though.)
My fear about the words “Fat Acceptance” is that they are “sound bite” type of words. Perhaps the better terms would be “People Acceptance.” Overweight people are made to feel like they are of less value. Like they are lazy and worthless and unable to control themselves.
Added to that is our American (US) food environment. Which is sickening (literally) in it’s over abundance of processed and high calorie foods. The way I lost weight is to go back to the times when we ate just normal, non-processed food. I eat whole grains, fresh veges and fruit, and all types of protein. Just no processed foods or sugar. I’ve never felt better in my life. And the reality is that I can now live my life as myself. Not as the person society (or my family or anyone) thinks I should be. I’ve accepted myself – my weaknesses and strengths and idiosyncrasies.
I once had a doctor tell me to lose weight I needed to *care* about myself. That was decades ago. But the message finally got through.
People are people. They are wonderful and valuable just as they are – no matter what the packaging is. And that should be the true message. Care about yourself. Accept yourself (including your weaknesses). Go ahead and work to improve, but failure at improvement or the inability to achieve full perfection (ha!) is not a sign of valuelessness. Which is what I believe our media culture subliminally and sometimes directly tells us (in order to make a buck and/or make themselves feel superior.)
So like I said 10,000 words ago, I’m very divided on the Fat Acceptance words. I believe in what I believe is the underlying concept. Just am fearful that it will lead to people not working towards better health. And just to be clear, better health does NOT mean a size 1, or even a size 6-8 or whatever. Better health means comfort and enjoyment and freedom to move and (hopefully) lack of health warning signs such as high blood pressure, joint problems, and diabetes.
February 29th, 2012 at 1:56 pm
…and I have to add…
I think food can be a type of addiction. One that people may turn to if they are living a life they are not happy with. Even if they don’t know they are not truly happy. I think living a life that is meaningful and fulfilling to you can naturally lead to a healthier life style. And also lead to Acceptance (be it “fat” acceptance or just overall acceptance.) In my case I’ve found if you live happy and fulfilled, health tends to follow – and in my case that means natural weight loss. I do not advocate thinness in and of itself. I advocate health and happiness in whatever shape that may take. If society calls a buxom, yet happy and healthy woman, fat. Then yes, it is called Fat Acceptance. I will never be a size 1-6. But I might be a size 8 or 10 again. But even if I only achieve size 12-14 and can move and be happy – that is acceptance to me.
February 29th, 2012 at 2:05 pm
One, amazing job losing that much weight! Congratulations.
Two, very well said. I almost wish you had posted first so I could just say “Yeah . . . what Karen said!” LOL.
March 1st, 2012 at 1:16 am
Thanks Karen. Although I’ve been challenging my views lately,.I think this is very similar to my views on health and happiness.
February 29th, 2012 at 1:53 pm
I have consciously chosen to avoid having this discussion with you, because it delves into parts of my own life that really aren’t on the table for discussion with ANYONE.
For context:
I’ve said point blank to other people, “It’s not my job to look like someone you want to fuck.” The only person who gets leeway on that conversation is my partner. Given my age and that I’m a pretty woman, it’s actually not concern for my health that gets people started. I do have health problems. I had them when I was thin – some were WORSE during my thin years – and I’m working on them now. Turns out proper dental care has done more for me than weight loss.
In answer to your question:
Since you’re genuinely asking, here are two places for you to start:
http://junkfoodscience.blogspot.com
http://www.haes.org – Dr. Linda Bacon is great with answering questions. I’m down about 40 pounds using this approach to body care – over the course of 4 years.
You do understand Fat Acceptance is not about sitting on our asses eating bon bons. Being physically active is hugely important to anyone’s health, and it’s a factor in the fat acceptance movement. It’s also counter culture in the extreme; you don’t just have to change how you think about your body, you have to actively defy mainstream opinions about your body – like the idea that your body is in any way public space. (A big problem for women worldwide.) Feminism is hugely wrapped up in this, and it goes back to the roots of appearance being conflated with character in the Victorian era. There will be more nuanced opinions than I give all over the place.
Hopefully some other folks will also be able to share some nuanced, educated views about this.
Especially since I make my living from a blog that might as well have a secondary tag of, “It’s this or dealing with an eyeful of me naked.”
March 1st, 2012 at 1:20 am
Yes, although I’m already learning more than I knew before. My previous understanding of the fat acceptance movement was that it was mostly about accepting one’s own weight. Sort of a personal choice thing.
But from the responses here I see it’s also (perhaps even more so) about getting society to accept people at any weight: more of an anti-discrimination movement, might be the best way I can put it.
Is that accurate?
February 29th, 2012 at 2:21 pm
Damn it, I don’t have time to fully respond to this, but my first blog (long gone now) was actually about body image so this come up a lot and I was one of the “skinnies” who supported it, maybe because I come from a family where 98% are overweight. But I am also a big fitness fanatic and healthy living advocate, too, so I always felt a bit uncomfortable with the movement at the same time. Basically, I don’t think it’s immoral to be obese/overweight and one should not be discriminated for it (and that’s the main point, b/c they definitely are), but that doesn’t mean you can’t encourage healthier living. Some people will change, other’s won’t. I also think for many it’s an uderlining society issue (i.e. desk jobs with long hours so you only have time to eat fastfood, cost of healthy food etc) I think there is a huge grey area when it pertains to women especially, between what’s considered fat (thanks media!) which is an issue that needs to be addressed, b/c you read some people’s nasty comments about celebrities that aren’t Paris Hitlon size and you have wonder what’s causing this distorted view of what’s normal and healthy.
I know I used bad grammar and writing, but I’m in a rush.
March 1st, 2012 at 1:22 am
Grace, thank you so much for this. Viewing it as an anti-discrimination movement is extremely helpful. And stopping that kind of discrimination is something I strongly agree with.
February 29th, 2012 at 2:28 pm
I agree with Karen that the premise should lean towards general people acceptance. When I was a teen, I teetered on being over weight (about 130 and 5’3″). I hated my body. Then I lost a crap load of weight. I find that I still feel shitty about my body at 96 lbs. I have actually had more people comment about my weight when lower than higher. I think with the Fat Acceptance, it’s really a movement geared towards women finding self-acceptance. I agree that health should be a consideration, but I think there is also this idea that you should be some ideal weight, when those with a few pounds over or under can still be perfectly healthy. It really seems like this movement along with parts of feminism are just trying to pave the way to a positive body-image that does not include perfection in every aspect. This could also be seen as a movement against plastic surgery. I’ve had my own issues in this arena (namely with weight and chesty region as explained here http://minimalistmommi.com/thebreastofme/443), so I really hope that any group begging for bodily acceptance gains headway.
March 1st, 2012 at 1:25 am
Thanks Megyn. Here is a question: do you feel there are ways to encourage people to lose weight that don’t fuel the body-image problem?
March 1st, 2012 at 1:59 pm
I think if you pose it as a health issue, it works. I see this more and more. Instead of saying, “Oh I need to work out to lose X pounds,” it’s evolving into, “I need to take a walk because my cholesterol is through the roof.” When we make it more of a focus on being healthy, the weight comes off with that. This also means that the rest of us need to accept bodies of all sizes as many can be technically “overweight’ but with better cholesterol levels than someone underweight. Health-that’s the framework.
February 29th, 2012 at 2:30 pm
I have a reasoned and thoughtful proposal: it’s not anyone’s place to judge someone else’s body. If they are happy (actually happy), then fuck you, leave them alone.
Whether they are healthy is something you *cannot* and *should not* try to determine on your own. That is something for them to discuss with their physician, who is actually, hey, *educated* on what is healthy and will have way more data than you (blood pressure, resting heart rate, and cholesterol at a *minimum*) to judge it on.
If they are unhappy and want to change, they will ask, and you can give advice, or point them at a professional who can help them.
So yes, Fat Acceptance all the way. Accept that people are fat, and don’t be an asshole.
February 29th, 2012 at 4:26 pm
Okay, I’m short on time, haven’t read all the comments, and just drive-by commenting to put this out there. Something more substantial in a bit.
First, I’m an advocate of “Health at Every Size,” (there’s a book you can read) which, yes, is often called Fat Acceptance.
Here is why, for me:
1) I am the thinnest member of my family. Seriously. There is definitely a genetic component. If I were to spend my life trying to get down to a size 8, or whatever is fashionable, I would be wasting my time.
2)Evidence: for over a year, I ate approximately 1600 calories a day, walked for 1 3/4 hours 5 days a week, and went to the gym for “cardio” 3 times a week. At the end of it: I had lost approximately 10 pounds. The evidence is just not there for the “calories in, calories out” model *in all cases*.
3)Studies (which I don’t have in front of me but can get my hands on) state that 95% of people who lose weight gain it back, plus some, within 2 years. 95%. That’s nuts. So, we’re just going to make all those people feel bad, even though they can’t really do anything about it?
4)Health concerns: the healthiest thing I ever did, regardless of my weight, is stop smoking. There are studies that show that healthy fat people live about as long as healthy thin people. It’s the *unhealthy* fat people who die first. The biggest predictors of health are not weight, but smoking and regular exercise. Because thin people still get diabetes and have heart problems, joint problems, etc.
5) Food is an important part of my life, and an important part of my relationship with Shoryl. While I don’t eat, say, at Brits every night, I do like to eat many different things. Sometimes even a candy bar.
6) Dieting leads to disordered eating for many people. When you get into a “restrictive” mentality about food, you begin to form exactly the same mental processes as any other form of eating disorder. Surely, that’s at least as unhealthy as being fat?
7)Shame. I’m not about to shame someone (even myself) for something that is only partially under my control to begin with, and that hurts no one but myself.
8)I am the boss of me. I happen to believe in self-development as well, but I can’t force self-development on anyone else. If someone says to me “I believe that it’s important to love ourselves as we are,” the proper answer from me is “that’s great that you’ve defined your values!” NOT “but shouldn’t you lose weight first?”
Frankly, I don’t believe anyone should ever be taken to task for doing something that hurts ONLY themselves. If fat acceptance is how someone gets through this world happy, then I’m not going to call it wrong.
(Now I scroll up and see Dianna is covering this angle, too. :) )
March 1st, 2012 at 1:36 am
Colleen, thank you for this response.
On an individual level, I would feel uncomfortable telling someone “shouldn’t you lose weight?” As Diana points out, a person’s body and what they choose to do with it is their own decision, not a public issue.
When a movement forms and enters the public dialogue, the merit of their position becomes a public issue.
I would never boss an individual friend around and tell them that they must quit smoking, but I’m glad a movement formed that educated people about the dangers of smoking. And I would oppose a movement that tells people it’s okay to smoke.
I guess that’s why I’m trying to understand the fat acceptance movement and what it advocates. If it encourages people to be healthy and happy then I want to support it, tweet about it, and spread the word. If it encourages risky or unhealthy choices then I want to stay well clear of it.
March 1st, 2012 at 6:58 am
I’m sure that there are parts of the FA movement that support being fat in an unhealthy, reveling kind of way. Just like there are feminists that look down on me for not being a “gold-star” lesbian. Any group that size, you’re going to get some fringes. So I don’t feel comfortable saying that EVERY FA person you meet is going to advocate health.
I can say that the vast majority do, and they’re working uphill against a society that believes that I CAN’T be healthy until I lose weight. I would personally consider the primary tenants to be:
1)Do not wait to live your life or love yourself until you reach some mythical weight.
2)Move your body in ways you enjoy most days (ie Exercise for enjoyment, not weight loss)
3)Eat a lot of different things, and practice intuitive eating (eat only when you’re hungry, stop when you’re full. And if you’ve never had disordered eating, you have *no* idea how hard this is.)
I hardly see that as encouraging laziness or irresponsibility, or promoting ill health.
March 1st, 2012 at 11:41 am
I agree Colleen. That’s awesome. Thank you.
February 29th, 2012 at 5:24 pm
I’m in on the people acceptance.
Personally, as a short, dense, muscular person, I wish at the very least people understood that the BMI index is just a rule of thumb.
Anyway, I come from a family of similarly dense, heavy people who tend to run to fat as they get older. And the main difference I can see in their health is that the ones who stay strong stay healthy, no matter how heavy they get.
But as far as Drew’s specific argument that as satisfying as it is to love yourself, it might be even more satisfying to get to a weight you’ll love yourself at, my personal opinion is that, much as I like my body more when I’m about one jeans’ size smaller, I’m aware that I feel that way because I’ve been enculturated to think that it’s nicer not to jiggle all over when I walk, that it’s better not to have love handles or a softly rounded belly. If I’ve been born a couple hundred years ago, I likely would feel I’m even a bit skinny still.
But as a man, Drew, it might be different. Muscular men have always been the ideal, and that standard of muscularity is pretty tough to achieve when you’re not in warrior training. But really, who cares what the ideal is?
Think about that. Who. Cares. And of the people who care, are there any you’re trying to please?
March 1st, 2012 at 1:43 am
Shanna, this is a really thought-provoking response. I’ll do my best to answer your final questions.
Speaking for myself personally: who cares what the ideal is? I do. Part of the lifestyle I’m practicing involves being ready for anything. Often I talk about that in terms of learning new skills. But, having a lean, flexible, strong body makes me more ready.
But again, that is my personal goal for myself.
Speaking for the world in general: who cares what the ideal is? I don’t. I love all my friends of any shape. I just want people to be happy, whatever that means for them individually.
March 2nd, 2012 at 6:25 am
Muscular is one thing. It’s the degree I’m thinking of. Can’t see much through the turtleneck, but I’m pretty sure anyone who trains as much as you is not strong and fit.
Now, compare that to a classical ideal, say, the David. I really don’t think you can consider it a failurre not to have the rippling six-pack abs, if only because it’s a lot easier to come by calories these days. If you’re strong, but a layer of flesh covers all that muscle definition, (and you’re healthy using other metrics) are you all right with yourself? Or do you demand/aspire to the classical ideal still?
March 7th, 2012 at 12:45 am
Hmm. Good way of putting it. I want to get as close to that ideal as possible, if only as a personal development project. I guess I’ll find out where my body draws the line at how defined it’s going to get, but I at least want to be lean and flexible.
February 29th, 2012 at 5:49 pm
People are fat because they choose to be fat.
If they’re cool with that, then rock on.
I can tell from the comments that a lot of people are lying to themselves though.
February 29th, 2012 at 11:42 pm
“People are fat because they choose to be fat.”
Source?
March 1st, 2012 at 12:20 am
Pick from any of the hundreds of studies demonstrating the effects of diet and exercise on body weight.
March 1st, 2012 at 12:54 am
So am I correct in understanding that you believe that a great enough number of people are “normal” when it comes to the idea that “they should be able to choose” that the people who can’t (for valid and well documented medical reasons) can safely be overlooked for the purposes of discussing the “fat acceptance” and “health at every size” movements?
And that you also believe that the myriad issues of time, circumstances, finances, access to knowledge, psychological issues around food, etc are all just excuses that people come up with to “avoid choosing”?
March 1st, 2012 at 2:46 am
Clearly, someone with a medical condition can’t choose to be healthy.
Out of the one hundred eleven million plus obese Americans, though, I think it’s safe to say that the vast majority of them have no such condition, and are perfectly capable of losing weight if they so choose.
March 1st, 2012 at 3:38 am
First I want to be clear that I am not intending to pick a fight and my tone was meant to be inquisitive rather than accusatory. Forgive me if that was not clear.
Secondly you missed my point in kind of an important way. As you yourself admit “clearly, someone with a medical condition can’t choose to be healthy”.
Aren’t psychological issues/disorders medical conditions? Of course there’s a great deal more “choice” involved in that than say a genetic condition. Still insurance pays for therapy (sometimes and if you’re lucky) and I’m sure you can believe that insurance isn’t going to shell out for “nothing”.
To be clear I believe in being healthy and in personal accountability. Addiction to eating is not like addition to alcohol though. You can’t put the bottle down and become a teetotaler with food. Eating is living. Do you really think that most people have that kind of willpower? You may be ready to counter that “most of the 110+ million obese Americans” don’t have deep psychological issues surrounding food. So why are they obese when so many want so desperately to not be obese? Are they lazy? Are they stupid? Are they taking the easy way out? I really want to know what you think.
And for your consideration a thought experiment:
Picture your favorite chair. It’s so comfortable. Like, no matter how bad your day was you can sink into it and just relax and be ok. Now maybe that chair is coming apart at the seems a little but you don’t think it’s that big a deal. Now imagine that everyone you know is telling you that the chair is going to kill you. It’s ugly and worthless and you’re stupid for having it. But it’s so comfortable! You know that the springs are poking out and maybe it’s one good flop away from falling apart but it’s still not a big deal for you.
Now picture one day “they” finally convince you to get rid of it. You throw it in the dumpster and you realize just how right they really were. That thing is dangerous! You can’t believe you could sit in it much less relax!
So you get a new chair. It’s ok but it’s nothing like your old chair. But overtime you pack it down, break it in, and all of a sudden you’re right back where you were.
Now instead of a comfortable chair picture trying to make dinner for your family. You’re working full time, your kids are busy, your spouse is busy but somebody has to do it. And it’s so much easier to just get take out. Or its so much cheaper to just buy junk food. Or a million other “comfortable” reasons why. Excuses true, but life happens and not everyone has the time or the energy or the resources to “do things right”. Especially not when “its not that bad” to not eat as well as you should. After all what’s it harming? For now.
To be sure I’m an advocate of health and responsibility. But it’s not as easy as choose. Not for 110+ million Americans it’s not. Otherwise they wouldn’t be fat. Not when they’re surrounded constantly by society telling them they’re less than.
But that’s just my opinion and you’re certainly entitled to yours. And no hard feelings eh?
Cheers,
Dave
March 1st, 2012 at 7:20 am
It’s cool man.
It’s pretty funny to look at the difference between what I typed and what people seem to have read, though.
I think poor Beth pictures me as some slender Adonis casting bolts of judgement from my wicker throne of unshakable confidence.
(I mean that is a fairly accurate depiction of my day to day, but still.)
Maybe “choose to be fat” is a taboo phrase. Maybe you’ve heard it used to mean something a lot more intrusive or judgmental. If so, that sucks.
I’m not saying “you choose to be fat, you’re disgusting, it’s your fault.”
And I’m not saying “you should lose weight.”
I don’t give a shit what anyone does with their body.
I’m saying “you made the choice to be fat, you can make the choice to lose weight… if you want to.”*
To me, that’s goddamn empowering.**
Having a choice.
My apologies if my acerbic manner of expressing myself masks this.
*Again, this applies to otherwise healthy individuals.
**(Unless someone were wanting to play the victim, in which case I can see how it would be quite unwelcome news.)
>> So why are they obese when so many want so
>>desperately to not be obese?
If I had to wager on the two biggest reasons, I’d say convenience and ignorance. I forget how appallingly bad most nutritional advice is, and mainstream exercise advice is usually worse.
It’s not hard to find the real information, but your average joe/jane is more likely to follow some shit they found in Men’s Health or Cosmo (e.g., temporary diets or fasting, distance running, bodybuilder type workouts) than to dig around on the internet for nutritional studies.
Also, I think instead of shooting for a healthier version of themselves, most people are aiming to be Brad Pitt circa Fight Club.
As for convenience:
>>And it’s so much easier to just get take out. Or its so
>>much cheaper to just buy junk food. Or a million other
>>“comfortable” reasons why. Excuses true, but life
>>happens and not everyone has the time or the energy
>>or the resources to “do things right”.
Perfect examples of choosing convenience.
I’m not saying they’re bad people, or lazy, or stupid for making the choices that they do…
…but they are making choices.
(Side note: It’s a huge myth that it takes a lot of resources to lose weight. Push ups are free. Tuna is cheap, rice too. Food prep takes maybe two hours a week if you batch it. 15-30 minutes a day for regular exercise.)
Anyway, thanks for opening up.
Now it’s back to, you know, spreading shame and oppression and whatnot.
March 1st, 2012 at 2:10 pm
Re: It’s a huge myth it takes tons of resources to loose weight.
Oh I know that there are plenty of cheap (not to mention free) ways to go about exercise. And if you have the free time to dig up those nutritional studies most if not all of those are free too. Total agreement with you there.
It’s just there’s a lot of people who don’t have the time, or worse won’t make the time cuz they wanna be Brad or Angelina damn it!, they don’t care about being healthy. Yeah, those people definitely exist. There wouldn’t be a multibillion dollar dieting industry without them.
But there’s people barely getting by who just want to do what’s best for their
family. Like my foster mom and dad. They have 3 bio kids, 6 foster kids and a most DEFINITELY finite amount of time. My mom is a social worker, my dad is a cab driver. They made less than $15,000 last year. They’re drowning in a sea of bullshit information on health and wellness, and the “Brangelina” body.
They’ve got so much to do they don’t have the time, much less the energy, to go digging for how to eat right. Not to sound like a pompous ass but without me they wouldn’t know anything about eating healthy. They just know what works for them with what little they have. They think it costs $$$ to be fit and healthy.
FYI I didn’t mean to suggest that you believed people are stupid, lazy, or whatever. I was trying to point out to you, in hopefully as powerful a way possible, that the rhetoric you’re using, regardless of intention, is not going to be well received by people who are struggling for whatever reason. I’m guessing you figured that out though.
I’m also not trying to sell you on anything or convince you you should do this or be that or put it this way. I don’t care. I’m just letting you know where I stand.
Cheers,
Dave
March 2nd, 2012 at 9:32 am
Speak for yourself, if you consciously chosen to be fat. If you aren’t then you don’t even have solipsism to confuse you into telling others their lives.
My personal view of the ‘choice’ thing is its yet another canard. I can only tell you that I didn’t consciously choose to become fat, if it was down to my actions, it was indirect.
And what was I doing whilst I was getting fat as a kid? Deeply in sympathy with the adults who worked their tails off to keep me. Feeling that I must do everything to be as unobtrusive as possible. Demand nothing, be not a burden. That was my contribution.
If that’s where I “choose to be fat”. I’ll take that. But do not ever write my story for me. Evidence should match people’s experience, it is not a meaningless abstraction to impose and bully people with.
February 29th, 2012 at 7:44 pm
1) @ Patrick -I am flabbergasted by how offensive your attitude is. Not to mention how far it is from the usual tone on this blog, which is about people remaining respectful to each other even when they disagree. I will refrain from using the tone I would like to use out of respect for the rest of this blog’s readers and its author. But I will say this: unless you are a licensed psychologist and have conducted therapy with every commentor above AND every fat person in the world, you have no right to make either of the claims you have made. But:
2) Thank you for providing such a beautiful example of why something like a Fat Acceptance movement might be needed. Because:
3) That is an excellent demonstration of the shaming that happens based on weight. And it NEEDS to stop. I know absolutely nothing about the Fat Acceptance movement, though I suspect I will now be researching it! And unlike Patrick, I do not assume that I can speak for other people. But what I will say is this, and I will say it despite the fact that Patrick’s comment makes it a lot harder to say: unlike Drew, I *am* ashamed of my body. At size 14, I am ashamed of it. And you know what? I was ashamed of it at a size 8 in college, too. Because I am being compared to a literally impossible standard, as the recent discussions about the extensive photoshopping of models demonstrate.
We are told that if we were smarter/care more/worked harder/knew more/wanted it badly enough, we would be thin, as though by magic. That may or may not be true for any given person at any given time. But regardless, there is NOTHING in that attitude that will help me in improving either my physical or my mental health. I agree with Drew that I’d hate to see people completely ignore the potential health effects related to obesity. I would also give anything to see my mom lose 50 pounds and keep it off, if the alternative is the constant on-again-off-again dieting and exercise, which only makes her feel worse about herself because she can’t seem to make any progress. Would she be healthier if she lost 100 pounds? Absolutely. But losing 50 would be healthier than losing 0.
I have never once found shame to be motivating. Almost by definition, shame sucks out your life force. You can’t be motivated and ashamed at the same time. Shame makes it really hard for me to make myself go to the gym, because I hate my body and I don’t like the idea that people are looking at it. Shame makes me hate myself for going for a run and not being able to keep up my college pace. Shame makes me constantly compare myself to every other woman I see. And I mean *constantly.* It literally never stops, unless I am by myself and there are no images of women around me. If I could wave a magic wand, I would eliminate all shame from this discussion. Perhaps that would be the definition of Fat Acceptance.
And then, life could begin. Real life, where self-development is actually a possibility. I would then be able to actually talk to my mom about whether she feels comfortable in her body, and what the health issues are, without fear of wounding her more. Maybe she wouldn’t be ashamed to be seen at the gym. She might be able to put down the shame that she carries because of the borderline abuse that her family put her through as an overweight child. Maybe she’d even be able to deal with the issue that made her start “eating her feelings” to being with – if your dad dies when you are 10 years old and no one lets you talk about it, you’re gonna have to find a release valve somewhere, and it might turn out to be food. And if you are unlucky, like my family, you might have some serious obesity genes, and that might lead to problems. As far as I’ve ever seen, shame is only motivating in a “ooops I shouldn’t do that again” situation. In a situation like this, which requires long-term habit changes and dedication and real WORK, shame is utterly unproductive, and anything that gets rid of it is alright by me. I wish to God I could make mine disappear.
March 1st, 2012 at 1:45 am
Thank you Beth.
There’s no instant antidote to shame, but you might find Safe from Shame to be a useful website. It’s run by my friend and former student Colleen, and can be found here:
http://www.safefromshame.com/
March 28th, 2012 at 2:16 pm
I’m sorry, but I don’t think it’s logical to say people don’t choose to be fat and then make a CHOICE to accept it. With the exception of people with illnesses and thyroid problems and whatnot, you can lose weight if you choose. Will you be a size 4? Maybe not, but to constantly make excuses for people is only hurting them more. The fact of the matter is, food corporations are poisoning us with their products and counting on us to make the cheaper, more convenient, and tastiest (aka salt/sugar/fat/msg) CHOICES… And we should refuse to accept that. That’s what they want…. So we can ignore ouraddiction and keep lining their pockets.
February 29th, 2012 at 10:55 pm
What Collen, Diana and Beth said.
I write a fat acceptance blog and they’ve pretty much already covered everything anyone who seriously wants to know what fat acceptance is about. Fat acceptance leans strongly on the health at EVERY size model, and does not equate fatness with illness, or thinness with health. Fat acceptance encourages people, but yes, especially women, to learn to love themselves as they are, to ditch dieting and find ways to be active that they enjoy. It acknowleges that being fat has a heavy genetic factor (it’s about 70% genetic according to a study I read in The NYT), a socio-economic factor (good food is expensive!), and a personal factor. It also acknowleges that there is NO moral imperative to be healthy. If I want to sit on my ass and eat bon bons all day, that’s my choice to make, just like if someone wants to smoke a pack a day or drink a bottle of gin. And before anyone jumps on the ‘but I dont’ want to pay for your unhealthy choices!’ bandwagon, too bad. That’s not how it works. We all pay into the system with our taxes, and we all benefit. If you don’t want to pay for my healthcare for some reason (like maybe you oppose contraception?), does that mean I can withhold my taxes for the drunk driver down in emerg who killed a family of four but got away with a broken arm? No, not it doesn’t. If someone is so incredibly selfish that they feel they can judge me by looking at me, decide what kind of person I am from my size, how healthy I am from the jiggle in my arms, they’re not worth my time any way.
As for the “What about family history of X and how it relates to fat?” question, many people in fat acceptance do what they can to minimize their risk. Illnesses can strike unexpectedly even in supposedly healthy people though, so we just have to do what we can, if we can. Look at Bif Naked; she’s a raw food vegan, works out, very healthy. She ended up with breast cancer. Her fault? No. Shit happens.
Ultimately people have to do what they feel is right for themselves, noone can choose a path for them. Minding our own business is a good start.
March 1st, 2012 at 1:53 am
Hi Jen, I was hoping you would respond and I really appreciate this view. As our resident expert I want to throw a couple questions art you.
1. Moral imperative. I totally agree that an individual can choose to smoke, drink, eat, etc. It is not a moral issue and not my place to judge them. That said, if a movement existed to encourage people to smoke it becomes a moral issue. Once you’re trying to convince others to do something unhealthy, it’s no longer just a personal choice. Does the fat acceptance movement encourage people to be healthy?
2. Genetics. My understanding is that obesity levels are indeed higher now than they were 50 years ago. Is that accurate? If more people are obese now than they were before, doesn’t that indicate that weight can indeed be influenced by diet and exercise, for a substantial number of people?
Thanks for being patient with me. This is an issue I’m only beginning to explore and I appreciate you taking the time to answer.
March 1st, 2012 at 11:47 am
lol Expert. Thanks. <3
1) Being fat isn't inherently unhealthy, like smoking or drinking is/can be. We know that drinking and smoking damages our bodies, even in small amounts. Over time it adds up and can lead to serious, life-threatening conditions like liver failure, brain damage, lung cancer, etc. Fat acceptance encourages people to be healthy on a number of levels-physical by encouraging activity we enjoy as best we can do it, recognizing that not everyone can excersize, wants too, etc. Emotional and mental health comes by learning self love and respect. This to me is the most important part because if you don't love and respect yourself, it's very difficult to love and respect anyone else. There are a LOT of self-hating fatties out there, and research is beginning to show that it's not the fat that's necessarily making some of us sick, it's the stress of being fat in a wolrd that hates fat people.
2) The BMI index which is most commonly used to measure obesity is a flawed measurement, with the goalposts of who's overweight and obese being changed back in 1998 so MORE people fell into those catagories. Overnight thousands of people went from low or no risk to medium or high risk of all kinds of things. BMI is not meant to be a measure of health at all, nor meant for women or children, only burly Scotsmen soldiers. (Seriously, Wiki BMI. It's hilarious if it weren't so tragic.) Weight CAN be influenced by diet and excersize, but as I said before there are genetic and socio-economic factors as well. People don't eat as well as they used too, we have more poverty, not less, in a lot of areas. In those same places, there are no actual grocery stores, no safe places for kids to play, and no way most people are going to go for a job or walk before/after work. If you dig, you'll find that most obese people tend to be low income and minority. The two go hand in hand, sadly.
If I started a regular work-out regimine I would probably lose a few pounds here and there, despite being pregnant. Hell, the morning sickness alone has dropped me pant sizes! But the more important thing would be the benefits to my heart, endurance, strength and flexibility. In fat acceptance, if a person wants to work out or train for a marathon, rock on! We have many that do. But it's not about losing weight. It's about enjoying our bodies and seeing what they can do.
March 1st, 2012 at 12:02 pm
1. Awesome!
2. Wow. I’m wiki’ing it right now. Just…. wow.
Based on what you and others have said, I have a lot of respect for this movement and what you’re setting out to do. Thanks again for your answers.
March 1st, 2012 at 12:18 pm
Jen – can you post a link to your blog? I’d love to read more. This is fascinating stuff!
March 1st, 2012 at 3:01 pm
Sure! I’m over at http://www.fatandnotafraid.jigsy.com You should be able to just click on my name at the top of my comments and get there.
Drew, I send you massive e-hugs. Thank you for asking questions and being open-minded and accepting of the answers you’ve recieved. You’re welcome!
February 29th, 2012 at 11:33 pm
Hey Drew,
I have the opposite problem from a lot of folks. I’m DESPERATE to GAIN weight.
Post-recent-surgery I am 6’3″ and 148lbs. When I hear people say thin=healthy fat=unhealthy I laugh to keep from crying. I have a (genetically based) metabolism “malfunction” (for want of a better term). I will ALWAYS have to be on medication. I will ALWAYS have to eat. A LOT. I have, in my past, struggled with an eating disorder (which is a fun thing to get diagnosed if you’re a guy). I used to binge on lard just to try to get enough calories in me (pre-medication that helped) right up until my heart attack at 16. I’ve never weighed more than 186lbs in my entire life.
When I look in the mirror now I KNOW this is not what a human should be. This is not a figure to glamorize. Curvy is sexy as fuck. Hell, just not being Skeletor would be awesome. So yeah…
I support health at every size because frankly if I hear someone make an off-handed comment about a person’s weight my first instinct is to scream “FUCK YOU” at the top of my lungs. There is no one who knows your body better than you do. Not even your doctor. Not from the point of view of having to live with it. Having to embody it, whatever it happens to be, whatever its form.
I’m not a doctor, I’m not a nutritionist. I don’t know the science behind the weight-health relationship. I’m not going to justify someone who crams McLard down their throats as fast as possible but I’m not going to call them “disgusting” “smelly” “stinky” or “evil” either. I don’t know what makes people the way that they are, I just want them to be happy and healthy and not a jerk.
That’s all that’s really being sought after by the health at every size movement. I think, anyway.
So yeah, that’s my thoughts on the subject. Not that I have any strong opinions about it. :D
Cheers,
Dave
March 1st, 2012 at 1:57 am
Dave, thanks for this. Having always been overweight, I never thought of these issues from the reverse perspective of being too thin.
Honestly, that does more than anything else to put this in perspective and show how ridiculous our body ideals really are. It also helps (for me) to have the perspective of a man.
Thanks for speaking up and saying this.
March 1st, 2012 at 3:18 am
No problem Drew.
I think a lot of people don’t realize that both the fat acceptance movement and health at every size movements are primarily about body acceptance (personal and social), healthy attitudes towards food (dieting is not healthy, changing your lifestyle to be healthy is healthy, dieting is not the same thing as changing your lifestyle to be healthy, not the way most people go about it), and just being decent to your fellow human beings.
It takes an INCREDIBLE amount of hubris, in my not so humble opinion, and a TREMENDOUS amount of privilege to tell someone “you chose to do this to yourself. you’re to blame for this. you deserve to be looked down upon”. Now I’m as big an advocate of personal responsibility as the next guy but the simple fact is YOU JUST DON’T KNOW WHAT PEOPLE ARE GOING THROUGH.
For me personally, the shame around eating is enormous. I have to take in 10,000 calories a day to maintain my body weight (that’s on meds too). I feel like a pig. When people see me eating they look at me with horror. It makes being a vegetarian next to impossible (something that deeply pains my soul).
It may help you to know, perspective wise, btw that large segments of the fat acceptance and health at every size movements are women, especially feminists. It’s hard not to see why. Studies have shown that fat men are seen as “cuddly” “more to love” “big boned” etc while fat women are seen as “smelly” “slimy” “evil” etc. As a queer man I’m disgusted by the attitudes of many in the gay community (guys I like to call “body fat percentage” queens). I’ve never been above 7.5% body fat. I’ve never been above 186lbs. I’ve been called fat.
Let that sink in for a minute: I gave myself a heart attack trying to eat lard to not die from being too thin and I’ve been called fat. This society is a bunch of idiots.
Something HAS to change.
Cheers,
Dave
March 2nd, 2012 at 9:46 am
My sympathies Dave. I do think people at your end of the metabolic chain are forgotten. The amount of people who suffer and in some cases worse because they can’t keep weight on is almost totally ignored.
This absolutely extraordinary fixation on cals in/out has meant that alternative avenues are barely sought and hardly persued.
March 1st, 2012 at 12:50 am
I have a very personal experience response to this one, Drew, over something you said to me years ago. I’ll email it to you later. Don’t worry, nothing bad! It just deals with the pressure I’ve gone through to be “sexy” at any weight, which is a very heavy issue — LOL — for me anyways.
I’m making light of that for a reason!
Once again, I really, really, REALLY want to discuss this issue right now yet already I’m starting to shake with anxiety and I have to settle down for my health. It is a very important issue. Perhaps I will write about it at my blog in future.
In the meantime, I close my eyes and picture happy, sunny thoughts about you!
March 1st, 2012 at 6:43 am
Drew, I have been vilified for saying something quite similar what you have written here. I said saying being fat is ok is not ok, or at least not enough. This was then interpreted as if I was saying that fat people are not ok. What I was trying to get across, like you, is that we should not be complacent. Especially those are very young should not be set up to settle for how things are, if change can make their lives so much better. This is not to say you cannot be happy unless you are thin.
I wonder if there is a big difference between America and Europe here. Though we are following American trends (like always), our obesity percentage is much lower. The pressure to be thin is a bit less intense, and we do not have much of a fat acceptance movement. When debating online with Americans, I notice that often the discussion results in an either/or standpoint. If you are saying that obesity is not ok, that must mean that you part of the media/commercial system saying that everyone must be a size 0,2 or 4.
I think fat is probably also a problematic term in this, since it is highly subjective. When I say that obesity is not ok, that is because obesity is a medical term for a medical condition, something that put’s you in high risk categories for many things. When I was trying to explain this, I was told there was no relation between obesity and heart disease, because thin people have heart problems too. It sounded to me a bit too much like smoking doesn’t cause long cancer, because non-smokers get cancer too. They said it is perfectly possible to be obese and perfectly healthy, possible perhaps, but not very probable.
In my country many things are accepted as facts or statistics, which in America seem to be a matter of opinion. I was very surprised to say the least. I am very grateful for this article, as you express to much better what I have been trying to say.
March 1st, 2012 at 9:34 am
I just wanted to add this, and this is what you are saying I guess:
We should be ok with who we are, but we should aspire to be great.
March 1st, 2012 at 11:48 am
That’s a powerful way of putting it, Soliwo. Thank you.
March 1st, 2012 at 8:27 am
[...] friend the Rogue Priest wrote a great article over on his site about Fat Acceptance. In it, he has this to say (though you should read all of it, especially the comments): Are my [...]
March 1st, 2012 at 9:22 am
I just wanted to chime in to say I liked your chair analogy.
To me it’s our very society/way of life that is at the root of the unhealthy way we live. It’s comfortable and easy and we are so busy and are bombarded by ads and signs showing/telling us how good that Wendy’s hamburger tastes. No easy solution of course.
Overall I’m finding all of the responses and conversations on this thread interesting and thought provoking.
March 1st, 2012 at 11:50 am
Me too. I’ve already learned so much.
March 1st, 2012 at 10:51 am
Lol, this is going to start out sounding like I don’t have much of an opinion, but I think there’s merit to both sides. Being overweight, actually overweight not the hyped up version, has been proven to cause health problems, which is why it is considered a health problem in and of itself now. So, I have issues saying, yes, it’s 100% okay to be overweight and not give a damn. But, I don’t think it’s okay to make someone miserable over the issue. This has also proven to have very negative health issues: depression, overeating, anxiety, high blood pressure, suicidal thoughts, and so on. Plus there are people who are just plain genetically prone to being overweight, even massively overweight, and the only way to reduce their weight is through surgery and such drastic dietary and exercise requirements as to be unreasonable for a satisfying life. I know a guy like this. I also wonder about the weight ranges used. For example, I’m 5ft even. My healthy weight range is 100 – 137lbs. Now, I’ve been down to around 115 lbs at this height as a Senior in high school. I wore size 0-3. I’d have looked anorexic if I’d dropped much more weight, and would have had a damn hard time finding clothes, outside of the kiddie department. Without knowing much about the “official” position of Fat Acceptance, here’s my take on it.
It shouldn’t be called Fat Acceptance, it should be called Weight Acceptance and means that you accept that not everyone can, will, or wants to worry about how much they weigh. Weight Acceptance is accepting that it’s their choice. There’s an awful lot of things out there that can kill us. Driving a car could result in an accident that kills you, but no one’s advocating we all quit doing that. If they are happy, leave them alone. If you aren’t happy about your (fill in the blank, weight, appearance, health, financial situation, location, etc), change yourself. Be willing to support others who wish to make a change, but like religion or politics, don’t try and force your views on others. The results aren’t usually positive.
March 1st, 2012 at 11:52 am
I like the term Weight Acceptance, Gwen. I can see where it wouldn’t have the same impact as Fat Acceptance but it does seem to be a more inviting, more understandable term. Good call.
March 1st, 2012 at 1:27 pm
I tend to go for “Body Acceptance,” because I think weight is just one of the tools used to stigmatize people that have different bodies. (On a lighter note, consider being left-handed.)
March 1st, 2012 at 1:30 pm
I hate left-handed people. They’re the devil.
(Actually I was born left handed and my mom is left-handed also. Now I try to do everything ambidextrously.)
March 3rd, 2012 at 9:03 am
I think Body Acceptance includes ideas that are different from the issues prompted by the Fat Acceptance movement, which is fueled by the specific issues dealing with being overweight. Body Acceptance implies to me acceptance of more than just weight, it’s being ok with your body shape and proportions and other imperfections.
March 1st, 2012 at 3:07 pm
I hate to be a pain in the ass but it hasnt’ actually been proven that being fat causes illness or injury. Correllation is not causation. Being unhealthy is what makes us sick or can contribute to illnesses, not fat. Fat=/=unhealthy. Thin=/=healthy.
March 1st, 2012 at 9:36 pm
Not that I vehemently disagree, but a point of scientific clarification.
You are correct that correlation is not causation. However, lack of proof of causation is not proof of lack of causation.
You state that fat is not unhealthy, but that isn’t a fact. Obesity correlates with a number of health issues. It is possible, as a few commenters have suggested, that it’s actually the stress and shame of being an outcast that causes those health issues, not the weight itself.
But unless that has been proven, please, let’s not state it as fact.
March 2nd, 2012 at 8:20 am
As a further point of scientific clarification, your understanding of the connections between weight and health, at least as you have expressed them in this thread, do not accurately reflect the very complex discussions that occur about that connection or lack thereof in the medical research community – at least among people who are not having their research funded by a member of the diet industrial complex. Sadly, most of what a vast majority of people know about weight and health comes out of medical reporting, and medical reporting is bad. As a former journalist and now academic, I hate to say that medical reporting is among the worst in the business, although not much worse than religious reporting. I’ve found very few journalists who can actually read and understand the medical literature itself. Most rely on press releases and ask a few questions but don’t have a strong enough background to actually go in depth on the material. Combine this with the fact that many weight researchers fall victim to confirmation bias, and you have a perfect storm. Even when the data say what the press releases and/or conclusions say they do, you still need to trace the money – if you can, that is, because many of the relationships are hidden (see Marion Nestle for a good discussion of issues like this).
So, to keep it simple, the only populations in which there seems to be a clear connection between weight and health are those populations at the furthest ends of the spectrum – severely “under” weight and morbidly “obese.” For everyone else, the waters are muddy at best. The interactions between weight and health are influenced to various degrees by genetics, stress, diet (as in type of food), dieting, age, illnesses, physical activity, viruses, hormones, medication, socioeconomic status, and stigmatization, among others. What we do know, however, is that both eating a well balanced diet and staying active are good for health, regardless of weight.
To be honest, I don’t know that anyone can actually participate in a goodwill discussion on this topic without really knowing more about the connections and/or lack thereof between weight and health. Because until you really engage with that discussion, and i think this is true for almost anyone living in the Western world, there is a tendency to situate the discussion in personal behavior and to ignore societal context. It also leads to a tendency to buy into cultural stereotypes about fat people (they eat terribly! They never exercise!) without actively interrogating the origin and validity of those stereotypes. And this situation is too complex for that. There are too many pieces and the stakes are too high.
If you truly want to know more and are willing to go out there and educate yourself, rather than asking others to educate you, I suggest the text Fat politics by J. Eric Oliver. He’s a professor at the U of Chicago, and he started where you are at now and wrote this text examining some of the very questions you are wrestling with right now. If you want to delve more into the demographics and the medical side of thing, I recommend works by Flegal, Ernsberger, and Wooley as good starting points. if you are open to reading accounts written for a lay audience, check out Campos and Fraser.
March 7th, 2012 at 12:53 am
Heather, thank you for taking the time to write all that, and I will try to pick up a copy of the book when I’m back in the states.
March 1st, 2012 at 11:07 am
I actually have an opportunity to talk about both sides of the coin:
When I was younger (before about 32-33), I couldn’t gain weight for love nor money. My problem wasn’t as severe as Dave’s; but I ate somewhere in the neighborhood of 6,000-8,000 calories a day. I was mistaken for a teenage boy more often than not (that part didn’t really bother me, but it’s beside the point). I would catch colds at the drop of a hat; in spite of the fact that my job at the time (receiving for a department store) was extremely physical and I was probably at my strongest in terms of actual muscle exertion.
In my 30s, I gained some weight, but I still worried that I would lose the weight. And I still ate like I did when I was younger and not gaining weight. I didn’t know how to change that. Which led to more weight gain.
When you’re underweight – when you have to eat two or more times the amount of food that the people around you do, you learn very unhealthy eating habits. Things like eating until you actually physically feel full, because that gives you about 20 minutes more of cramming things in. Foods high in empty calories may seem unsatisfying, but because you can get more calories for less volume, they work to pad your calorie intake. These are the things you learn to do just to subsist, especially if you’re underemployed like many young people.
When I got to the point where I was unhappy with my weight on the heavy side of the spectrum, like many people, I tried various weight loss models (I won’t call what I did dieting, because I was trying to change the way I ate and exercised to be sustainable). It didn’t really help much. I learned several take-aways, like exercising for the sake of burning calories is not something I can do, and I will binge on things that are not healthy if I don’t include at least a small amount of them in my regular diet, because I like them and will crave them.
What I’ve learned from the Healthy at Every Size movement is simple: Move your body in the ways you enjoy, and try to eat well, while listening to your body’s signals. I learned to ignore my body’s signals when I was underweight, which makes it a struggle to relearn them now.
March 1st, 2012 at 11:58 am
Shoryl, thank you for sharing your story. This has really helped me gain perspective.
March 1st, 2012 at 11:20 am
I’ve been overweight since I was 3 or 4. In my family, the women are either overweight or live on diet pills, coffee, and cigarettes, maybe having a meal at dinnertime. I started kindergarten at 85 pounds and first grade at 115 pounds. It wasn’t until second grade that the students really said anything. I spent most of my childhood on one diet after another, never losing and constantly accused by dieticians of cheating on it.
It took until October 2010, when I was in womens’ size 36/38 to have a doctor find out why I could eat 1400 calories a day, go to water aerobics three times a week, walk for a half hour daily, and still gain weight or at the best maintain. Along with having an underactive thyroid, I also have a fun spin on that— rT3 dominance that does not respond to standard treatment options. Sometimes, no matter what thyroid medication I’m on or how much I work out, my metabolism is too efficient and I have to exercise until I’m ready to drop just to not gain.
In a year and a half, I’ve taken off 125 pounds by constantly changing my hypothyroid medication and dosages of those, along with recently cutting out all gluten and dairy sources to try and limit adrenal stress. I weigh what I did as a teen. I weigh less than when I first met our Rogue Priest. My spouse is happy I’m losing weight. He likes me being able to keep up when we go hiking. He likes people making less rude comments when we’re out and seeing me be hurt by them, no matter how small my reaction is.
Do I still have a lot to lose? Probably. I’d rather not spend my later years crippled with arthritis pain. I have arthritis in my knees from post-partum edema. That’s only going to get worse with my weight as the years continue. I can make it easier by losing.
Right now, I’m more worried about maintaining and getting healthier but not what my scale says. I’m in a 22/24, which society considers too big, and you know what? I don’t care what they think. I eat right 98% of the time and work off the treats I do have. My blood pressure is 110/60 consistently at my check ups. My blood sugar is normal if not low, and I come from a family of diabetics.
I’d like to get to a size 16, but if I don’t, I’m not worried. My doctors and I
have worked hard to get me where I am. I’m teaching my daughters good eating habits as well as that they are beautiful and worth love no matter the size as long as they love themselves enough to be the best they can be- and that does not mean thin. It means eating right, exercising regularly, and seeing a doctor to keep everything else in line.
While I agree that society needs some concept, not of fat acceptance per se, but of people acceptance, I think the media has sensationalized both sides. Do we as people need more responsibility for the choices we make? Fuck yes. Do we also need others, well-meaning friends and family or strangers as well as judgmental assholes, to learn some bit of restraint in their comments, yes. That applies to weight as it does to all aspects of life.
March 1st, 2012 at 11:57 am
Beautifully said, Miya. Thank you for sharing this.
March 1st, 2012 at 1:39 pm
I just want to address this: “There is a type of happiness to be found in accepting circumstance, but also a type of happiness in overcoming adversity or personal obstacles and achieving something hard.”
Two things: first, I am a sorta-fat (size 16-18ish) woman, who is also hugely into personal development and conscious personal growth, and I count it a goddamn coup in my history of personal growth that I’ve been able to learn to love my body and overcome the constant flaming barrage of hate and shame this culture is throwing at me over it. You want to talk about obstacles, adversity, and achieving something hard? Try being a fat person who refuses to be ashamed of your body, who actually pushes back against people who concern-troll about your diet (total strangers, mind you, not even friends or family – I’m talking about the “you shouldn’t be eating that” drive-by comment type here), who publicly refuses to be on a diet or engage in diet talk with others. That is incredibly, incredibly hard. To quote a favorite writer of mine, “Being publicly fat and happy is hard; being publicly, shamelessly, unshakably fat and happy is an act of both will and bravery.”
I have been dieting pretty much constantly from about age 15 onwards, when I was 5’7″ and weighed about 140 lbs. I was never really skinny – my genetics won’t allow it – but I wore a size 12 and was very proportional to most people’s eyes. The dieting itself ruined my metabolism, to the point where I now weigh approximately 230 lbs (I don’t know exactly, as weighing myself tends to trigger my disordered eating patterns, so I don’t do it). I was 24 when I finally said “That’s it, that’s enough, I want off the merry-go-round.” Research has shown that weight cycling – losing weight through dieting, then gaining it back plus some, then going on a diet again – is actually more harmful to your health than just being steadily fat. So I finally said “I quit” to dieting – and thus began one of the most difficult struggles of my life, as I had to try to learn how to eat “normally”, how to exercise without feeling resentful and forced, and how to accept my body for what it is and what it can do, instead of hating it for not being what I (or more to the point, society) wanted it to be and do. It took intense self-work, journaling, meditation, writing, conversations with FA/HAES friends, reading FA bloggers, for about two years for me to finally stabilize, mentally and emotionally, in a place of self-care and self-acceptance.
Tell me how that’s not overcoming adversity and achieving something hard?
Second point, there’s “achieving something hard”, and then there’s “encouraging people to undertake potentially-dangerous behavior that has only a 5% chance of success in the long-term.” I do not believe those are the same thing. Encouraging weight-loss as a personal growth thing is sending someone on a fool’s chase. There are better ways one can overcome adversity and achieve personal goals, ones that don’t present health risks and ruin one’s metabolism in the doing.
Oh, and one last thing – I’ll be happy to call it “people acceptance” when doctors start prescribing dangerous diets to all thin people in lieu of real treatments, when thin people get paid less for the same job and are less likely to get hired, etc. In short, we can call it “people acceptance” when thin people face the same structural, systemic discrimination that fat people do. Until then, it’s Fat Acceptance for a reason.
March 1st, 2012 at 9:46 pm
Thanks for this, Jadelyn, and welcome to Rogue Priest. I’ll try to reply to both of your points.
I have tried it. I lived this way for nearly 20 years. I was moderately overweight for most of those and, for 6 of them, very obese.
I made my peace with my weight around the time I was 22 or 23. I agree that it was a form of overcoming adversity, and it was a relief to stop feeling bad about my image.
Eventually, after gaining even more weight, I decided to seek a further victory and find a responsible, gradual, reliable way to lose weight. It has worked so far, and I’m grateful for that.
To me, having lived both of them, I do consider the proactive, demand-a-change, self development approach to be a very different kind of thing than the acceptance, self-love, take-me-as-I-am approach.
Well said.
March 1st, 2012 at 1:44 pm
I think your second point about self-development is very interesting, in that I see an implication that being fat is somehow complacent, or that people who don’t want to lose weight don’t want to take on something hard. Fat people, as all people do, face hard obstacles and achieve despite of them every day. Perhaps I am projecting, but I see beyond your point of “self development” a bit of the stigma that fat people are inherently lazy.
I develop my yoga practice, I challenge myself on runs, I deepen my skills. None of these things have anything to do with my fat body, or how I approach challenges. My body is not an adversity to overcome. It’s a wonderful partner in the many mental, physical, and emotional activities I do every day. I am not complacent within my body, but I am content with it.
I would argue that fat acceptance tells women and men that their fat bodies do not hold them back from achieving anything. It’s helped me to overcome the mental block I have that I can’t be both fat and healthy- despite every clean bill of health from the doctor and my own mental awareness of my body’s abilities.
March 1st, 2012 at 9:48 pm
Emily, welcome aboard. You might be right. That could very well be part of the reason I see weight loss as self development. This is an excellent point and I’m glad you posted it.
March 1st, 2012 at 1:49 pm
hi Drew -
I came over from Fat and Not Afraid. Thank you for asking insightful questions! Too often, the internet is filled with such rude and hateful attacks and assertions. It is nice to have dialogue.
My own journey to FA is a long and twisting road, and I am not going to share it here. What I am going to share is what I am learning from the young women with whom I work on a daily basis and why what I have learned seems to argue that a FA is the way to go – not only for emotional health but also physical health.
The young women with whom I work are smart, funny, kind, caring, hard workers. And, sadly, to a one, they feel like they are completely worthless because of their weight. They’ve received this message their entire lives… from family, from friends, from classmates, from the media, from the medical establishment. I’ve had one young woman say to me, “I don’t understand why my mother hates me so much. I’ve done everything right. But I am fat and she hates me.” Over and over, I hear stories from people about never being good enough, never being the “complete package” because of their weight. And I think it is difficult for them – and they are still growing into maturity – to have the strength of character to just say, “Screw you. I love myself and i am going to do x, y, and z, for myself.” They know they are judged and judged harshly because of their weight, to the exclusion of anything else good about them.
And so what I see is that those who loved exercise stop exercising, because they are afraid that they will be judged. And they are judged and harassed (folks, stop making oinks and moo sounds at fat people when they exercise. Counterproductive, much?). And they feel like they are being judged when they eat, no matter how healthfully they eat. And they won’t go to the doctor, because they are afraid that all their problems will be blamed on weight, even when there is no direct connection, and so they weight until they are really sick, and so of course, they are then judged as the sick and fat person. And they feel like they are worthless, because no matter what else is wonderful about them, they only thing that seems to matter to everyone around them is the size of their bodies. It’s an almost neverending cycle of self hatred and external judgement and it needs to stop.
So, for me, the important part about FA is not that it says “be ok with yourself,” although i think that is a message more of us need to hear. it is that it can become a form of empowerment to individuals who are disenfranchised and disempowered in a fat-hating system. If more of us could love and accept our bodies, even if they weren’t perfect, and if we knew that we weren’t going to be harshly judged for being imperfect, we might feel empowered to truly take care of our bodies. And if we knew that it was ok to take care of our bodies through joyful movement and healthful eating – even if we never reach some physical ideal – we might be more inclined to do so. But if we know that we will always be hated and judged because it is difficult and possible impossible to reach some ideal, it is very easy to shut down and engage in unhealthful behaviors.
I definitely fall in the Health at Every Size camp. And I think the best thing is that we can love ourselves, even with our imperfections. And if we love ourselves, we should be able to take care of ourselves, without fear that everyone around us is judging us harshly because we are imperfect. FA and HAES can help those things become a reality. Shame and hatred and judgement will only cause harm.
March 1st, 2012 at 9:53 pm
Heather, thank you for this. Youth development organizations are among my most beloved causes and yet I have never worked with any that focus on issues of weight and body image. This is truly eye opening. Thank you.
March 1st, 2012 at 2:42 pm
I can’t wait to read the rest of the responses, I am running out of time, but what a great discussion.
I didn’t get to read if anyone else here has wrestled with an eating disorder, but I have. It started when i was 14, and I got it under control at 18, as a size 1 who had the pills in her hand and was ready to do away with myself.
It took a great recovery program, and of course my absolute willingness to to regain control of myself. I have since had 4 children- somehow that proves that I can gain weight and not freak out or something…. I am NOT 140 pounds anymore. My body is different. My husband tells me how much he honors and loves the changes brought about the incredible transformation that takes place through growing children, giving birth and nursing. As for me, I still freak out every warm season about swim suits. I have to watch my running/working out because the second that 5 miles isn’t enough, or I worry “too much” about the 2nd helping of mashed potatoes and chicken gravy I had, I need to reel it in. I KNOW firsthand that I am strong enough to NOT EAT, and to work out an insane amount, I am strong enough to have a dedication to counting calories and having a completely slammin body in every aspect again….
but it takes MORE strength for me to take a deep breath and say “It’s okay. I AM okay right now. I don’t have to throw up because I ate more than I planned on eating. I don’t even have to go run 3 miles to ‘make up’ for it.”
The evil little voice telling me that I should look like Angelina Jolie or any other famous woman does a few weeks after giving birth is NOT very loud most of the time. But I did just take a run at doing a “cleanse” and that was a BIG FAIL, and I should have known better. Who the hell needs to feel bad about EATING?
Ideally, I’d be 10 pounds lighter. But I know that I will never be as thin as *I* would like, I know I AM being judged by anyone who sees me, but it probably lasts like half a second and then it’s over with. And certainly they can’t be thinking anything meaner than what I am or have. (I’m not always so brutal to myself, like I said, the attempt at a cleanse was a dumb move and I need to undo the eating disordered thinking that I triggered.)
The most IMPORTANT THING for me is this: at the end of the day, what I’m looking for has more to do with spiritual things that can’t be seen anyway. The love I’m counting has nothing to do with weight.
Absolutely, our country has an obesity thing happening. Absolutely, we (in general) are lazy. Technology/pills/drugs/TV- on and on, we are bombarded by ways to make things “easier”, and pictures of what we “should” look like according to Society (?). Health is important. Mentally as well as physically, and maybe moreso.
March 1st, 2012 at 9:55 pm
Well said Nicki. Thank you.
March 1st, 2012 at 2:44 pm
I’m a lifelong fat person, and I’ve struggled for years to fix my broken attitude towards eating: simply put, I frequently have a difficult time convincing myself that it’s OK for me to eat anything at all. Not just the less-than-healthy stuff. ANYTHING. But you wouldn’t know it to look at me; I’m fat enough that most of my clothes have to come from plus-size retailers. If the calories in/calories out model of weight loss is completely accurate for absolutely everybody, there must be a lot of calories floating around in the air here!
It’s frequently said in the Fat Acceptance world that you can’t hate people for their own good. It’s true. You can’t demonize fat and stigmatize the people whose bodies are fat, and expect that this will somehow magically make us thinner, sexier, or healthier. If we have health issues, that’s our business, and it’s our job to do something about it, though finding a health professional whose prescription for us will not solely consist of Weight Watchers or bariatric surgery can be a bit of a problem. Our weight doesn’t make us any less human. It certainly doesn’t make us any more deserving of ridicule than any other group of people in the world.
What draws me to Fat Acceptance is the assertion that even fat people are human beings who deserve respect and dignity. Whatever we do with our bodies, it is our choice, and unless we actively look for other people’s opinions about our looks, our activity levels, our choices in food, or our health statuses, our bodies ought not to be anybody else’s business. Our fat bodies certainly shouldn’t be the target of as much hate and disgust as tends to be focused on them.
This isn’t complacency. It isn’t being too easy on ourselves, setting the bar too low, or not being serious about keeping our bodies healthy. What this is, is a means of reclaiming the humanity that is so often denied to those of us with unusually high amounts of adipose tissue under our skin. I’ve met a lot of other fat people over the years, and not a single one of them was unaware of their weight or had never tried to slim down. But we’ve all felt the effects of being fat in a society in which fat bodies are considered to be unacceptable, and those of us who are involved in Fat Acceptance are simply refusing to be dehumanized like that any longer.
March 1st, 2012 at 9:57 pm
Thank you. I think this is the part I was missing when I first wrote my post. It makes a lot of sense.
March 1st, 2012 at 3:45 pm
I’m the example in your blog post. I weigh 210 pounds and according to BMI standards, I should be under 150. For most of my adult life, I’ve put a moderate, sustainable effort in and felt great at 185-195. (I will probably get back to that sometime soon.) I’ve been fat since childhood and I’ve always been active and nutrition conscious. I’m 42 and have clothes from high school that still fit. I’ve been consciously involved in the fat acceptance movement for 20 years, and before that I was pretty much my own fat acceptance movement.
I also tend to favor self-development. I agree that “there is… a type of happiness in overcoming adversity or personal obstacles and achieving something hard.” That’s why I’ve attempted and achieved quite a few difficult things in my life.
I’m from a troubled family, where things improved considerably when I was 11 and my parents broke up. I parented my parents and my little brother as teenager. I’d soloed with two orchestras by the time I was 18. I put myself through three degrees (two in engineering) at top universities as an adult, often working full time with 2-3 classes. I’ve been a Habitat for Humanity House Leader. I’ve been through two international moves, handling the first reallocation on my own and taking the lead on the second. I’ve heard my employers and colleagues say “women’s brains just aren’t wired to do this kind of work” and then proven them wrong. Do I sound like someone who doesn’t meet challenges head-on?
But my weight? It’s not something I see as a worthwhile challenge. When I was growing up, I saw an uncle and three aunts yo-yo diet themselves 100 pounds heavier than they’d started out. By the time I was 12 or 13, it was obvious to me that dieting would probably be counterproductive for me in the long term, and I decided not to do it. I started high school at 180 pounds and ended my freshman year at university at 220. I’ve never left that weight range for any significant amount of time and I suspect I won’t until I’m very old and wasting away.
Now, if I ever decide to take on some kind of spectacular physical challenge and lose weight as a result, that’s fine and dandy. However, I refuse to waste my mental and emotional energy trying to change my body and then continually labour to maintain that change, when it’s fine as it is.
In my life so far, I’ve seen a lot of beauty and maybe even created some. I’ve done a lot of things I was scared to do; taken risks and pursued dreams. If I’d spent my life obsessed with my weight, I wouldn’t be the person I am today and I seriously doubt that I’d have accomplished what I have.
March 1st, 2012 at 10:01 pm
This is a deep and thought-provoking response, Deidre. Thank you.
I have a question. I see how, in your case, the self-development challenge of reducing your weight is of no interest. In a similar way, I have no real interest in learning how to fix cars. It would be a lot of hard work for something I’m not passionate about.
However, I can see how knowing how to fix cars would be valuable, and how it would in fact be a great form of personal development.
Do you feel the same way about weight loss, or not?
March 2nd, 2012 at 2:34 am
It think that seeking to eat in an ethical way is worthwhile. I think that pursuing athletic goals is worthwhile. I think that focusing on weight loss is misguided. There tends to be a horrible recoil effect if we try to control our weight directly and precisely.
Since there’s so much societal pressure to do lose weight and so much mainstream support for people who (usually temporarily) succeed, I don’t see it as spiritually elevated. To me, unless it’s done in isolation, it amounts to giving up the joy in eating and movement for superficial change and social approval. Losing weight is fairly easy, but maintaining a weight loss is not. Marilyn Wann compares it to holding your breath for a couple of minutes vs. holding your breath forever. It’s quite difficult to maintain a large weight loss long term, and in that sense it’s a challenge and succeeding at it is admirable. But to me, constantly fighting my body doesn’t look like a joyful, rewarding challenge.
I think that taking really good care of a fat body and mind is much more radical than deliberate weight loss, and probably more deeply rewarding as well. It doesn’t garner the same support and approval. However, looking to our bodies for cues on what/how much to eat and how to move takes a lot of wisdom and self awareness. It’s creative and it allows for a balanced approach to health. My body does what I ask it to do, physically and in return, I give it what it needs. If I need to do something new physically, it adjusts and becomes what it needs to be. I don’t see it as my job to try to micromanage its appearance or statistics. It has sophisticated autonomic systems for that, and they resist conscious control.
Now, some spiritually advanced people seem to be able to control their bodies at that level, and that’s certainly impressive. However, something tells me that type of person wouldn’t be focused on body weight, and so admiring them for being able to control it would be… kind of insulting? Anyway, I’m not one of those people so I work with what I have.
March 7th, 2012 at 12:55 am
Excellent response. Thank you.
March 1st, 2012 at 6:20 pm
This subject seems to keep popping up in my life lately and now you go and write about it!
I have been overweight for about 8 years now. I’ve hovered around 200lbs (I’m 5’6″) for several years. After I had my second child I felt absolutely horrible about myself but I felt like my circumstances just did not allow for me to lose any weight. And that may or may not have been true.
I also got somewhat unhealthy and had some pretty serious and debilitating healthy problems.
I started connecting online with a lot of “fat” womens groups for fat fashion and ended up getting peripherally involved with the whole “Fat Acceptance” movement and “Health at any Size” stuff.
And after a few years of observing that culture, my opinion is that the whole “Fat Acceptance” movement is doing more harm than good.
My experience is that the most vocal proponents are just loud bullies who want to shame everyone else into agreeing with them. They have a whole litany of special insults reserved for anyone who doesn’t 100% get on-board the FA train.
I don’t believe that you can be healthy at any size and common sense and science tend to back that up. The FA movement have a handful of “experts” on their side and a handful of “studies” that are skewed to support their ideals…….but being severely overweight isn’t good for you. I think we all know this and I think that’s why they are so defensive about it.
That said……of course the media messes with us. And of course not every woman is going to be a size 00. But the other extreme isn’t healthy either. I don’t believe in health at extreme obesity and I don’t believe in health at extreme thinness either. I don’t feel like the FA movement is helping women at all. I know women who have found the FA movement and found such acceptance that they have deliberately gained MORE weight and found themselves with more health problems. But, as the FA folks will say, you can’t DARE ever suggest that the weight or poor eating habits are to blame or else you are a “concern troll”.
BUT! I think that whatever grown adults want to do with their own bodies is their business. If you want to be fat,be fat. If you think you’re beautiful. be beautiful. As long as you aren’t harming anyone else, grown ups are grown ups and should be able to make their own choices.
I wish we could just call a spade a spade. Being fat is almost always a choice. Yes, I understand that sometimes the choice seems impossible. I completely understand where the movement came from, I get why it exists…but I think what it has evolved into today is detrimental to women. I think it encourages unhealthy behavior and it nearly demonizes self-improvement or attempts to be healthier. Women should not be made to feel inferior because they don’t look like models, but they also shouldn’t be encouraged to be unhealthy in order to buck the system.
I have hope that this extreme reaction will eventually settle and the pendulum will hopefully swing to the middle someday.
March 7th, 2012 at 1:01 am
You know – I really wasn’t expecting a response with this. I wish more people had seen it and responded (though I worry that it might have gotten less than polite, so maybe it’s better that they didn’t).
I’d really like to get a neutral scientific opinion on whether the research cited by FA is generally accepted in the medical community. The one medical researcher I know strongly disagrees with FA and believes their claims are misleading and mistaken. But that’s only one researcher.
Is there a chance to you have a recommendation on where to learn about how well-accepted their studies are, C Lo?
March 9th, 2012 at 7:38 am
FA doesn’t have any studies. We don’t have the ability to fund them. We’re a grass roots movement with no commercial support. The studies we cite are high quality, peer reviewed, mainstream science.
March 9th, 2012 at 7:43 am
And, nobody’s commenting on the post above because it’s so poorly supported. The person who wrote it has a strange impression of fat acceptance, and she doesn’t give enough detail about why she thinks as she does for anyone to refute it. Maybe there’s a blog or website somewhere that’s like that? Who knows.
March 9th, 2012 at 9:14 am
In fairness, nobody is commenting on that comment because almost no one is looking at this post anymore – once a blog post is more than 2 days old most folks stop coming back to it and following the comments.
I realize Fat Acceptance as a movement hasn’t funded studies; I was referring to the ones FA frequently cites.
A study can be peer-reviewed and still not accepted by the majority of scientists. For example, there are peer-reviewed studies trying to support Creationism.
Likewise, a study can be outdated. For example, several years ago there was a peer-reviewed study that showed that prayer helped increase the recovery of sick patients. Then a different research team tried to reproduce the results and found out that there had been serious procedural errors. The results could never be reproduced, and the study is no longer credible.
I’m not saying the “95% of people can’t succeed at dieting” studies DO fall into this camp. But, for all I know – as an uneducated outsider who has no idea of the academic literature on the topic – they might. I’m just pointing out why I don’t take it at face value.
I have one friend who is a medical researcher and another who is a nutrition researcher. I’ll ask them what they think of the current academic consensus on the efficacy of dieting. They can probably point me to the most current articles or studies.
Thanks for jumping in here Deidre. I’m glad someone is still reading :)
March 9th, 2012 at 9:21 am
“I’ll ask them what they think of the current academic consensus on the efficacy of dieting. They can probably point me to the most current articles or studies.”
I’d be interested in what you find out.
March 11th, 2012 at 2:35 pm
Excellent. I will report back, likely with a new post about what they say.
March 1st, 2012 at 6:55 pm
May I suggest a thought exercise here? Other people have mentioned this too, but it’s something I think bears repeating because the vast majority of John and Jane Public don’t get it.
Consider this: In general, human beings all deserve to be treated with respect, dignity, and acceptance by other human beings. No human beings are more or less deserving of these things than any other human beings by virtue of their physical characteristics. I would argue that this is the main premise, or at least one of the main premises, behind pretty much every civil rights movement than has ever been. But as it stands right now in our society, people who deviate from a set norm of size and weight do NOT receive the same treatment as people who more closely conform to the norm. In addition, people who conform to the norm may be terrified of becoming deviant someday. Basically, it’s a no-win situation.
To that end, it might be better to think of fat acceptance as a movement for the acceptance of size and shape diversity in general. Whatever you want to call it, though, the basic idea is that people of all shapes and sizes deserve the same good treatment, because we are all human beings. It does not say that you (general you!) have to like fat people or find them sexually attractive (though it would be nice if society at large would stop presenting specific body types as always without a doubt more desirable than others). It does not say that people who want to change the size and shape of their bodies should stop trying (though I do think a lot of FA/size diversity activists would like to see a more balanced discussion of the ACTUAL success of such efforts, as well as the effects of things like weight-loss drugs and weight-loss surgery, so that people can make truly informed decisions about what to do with their own bodies). It does not say that people should all become fat. It does not say that people should stop caring about their health, if that is something they want to do. It does not say that people who want to practice healthy habits like exercise or eating healthier foods should not do those things, if those are things they want to do.
What it DOES say is that all human beings deserve to be treated with respect, dignity, and acceptance, regardless of the size and shape of their body. And I really don’t understand why more people can’t get behind that concept. If you’re (still a general you!) concerned about peoples’ health, there are MANY more useful things that could be done to improve that. Fight to end the shaming and stigmatizing of people for any reason. Shame and stigma cause stress, and stress has ALSO been correlated with many health issues (including many or even most of the ones that have been linked to obesity…hmm….). Fight to improve access to healthy food for more people. Many people live in food deserts and don’t have access to a decent grocery store. Fight to provide more people with safe and inexpensive or free places to get their exercise. Not everyone has a safe or affordable place to go and even do basic things like walking. But whatever you do for goodness’ sake, don’t deny people their basic dignity as human beings. Shame and stigma don’t do ANYONE any good.
March 7th, 2012 at 1:02 am
Agree. Thank you, Ayahime.
March 1st, 2012 at 7:59 pm
Fascinating discussion, Drew. I will admit that I am personally averse to the phrase ‘fat acceptance’, because it’s such an emotional and cultural hot-potato. And because of my personal history. I am much more deeply acquainted with fat rejection- as I am sure many here are.
My mother was anorexic. My father preferred skinny stick-women. Both my brother and sister took after my mother. I took after my father’s side of the family. They were more solidly and curvily built, and the bullying by my father- the taunts, the pinches, the pokes, the constant harassment- began when I started growing those curves. It did not stop. I was ‘fat’ when I was actually normal. And when I was actually fat- north of 200 pounds, his contempt was palpable.
My mother would tell me that she ate to live, but I lived to eat. Hey, food is life- but I was not an emotional eater. My mom hated food and cooking. She weighed 85 pounds when she died. My sister is barely over 105.
I chose to lose my weight not because of my father’s nasty attitude but because I got tired of hauling that extra 30+ pounds up and down the stairs at work. I did a thorough study of current diet and exercise regimens, and took Michael Pollan’s little mantra to heart: “Eat food, not too much, mostly plants.” I did not go on a formal diet. I just used a smaller plate. I ate real food- fresh things I could recognize- got rid of all wheat products, and stopped eating out at restaurants. I used real oils. I turned the food pyramid on its head, and ditched all the grains, reducing them to tiny servings. And I exercised 3 times a week.
I lost ten dress sizes and two BMI categories. I went from borderline morbid obese to borderline overweight. And I’m about to bust this plateau and try for an even leaner profile before menopause hits.
I did this as a magical exercise- a test, even. I turned this into my personal ordeal- my personal test of my magic-worthiness. If I could not effect Change (on my body) according to my Will, I was going to just walk away from the whole thing. If a Mage can’t change hirself, then sie has no business trying to change anything else. And I have been maintaining this state of being for 3 years. I feel great.
I understand the reasoning behind the whole ‘fat acceptance’ movement. Yet, I also see that we have a monstrous problem with obesity that is beyond anything we’ve ever dealt with in the history of humanity. Whole industries- bariatric services- are springing up to serve the growing numbers of extremely obese people. There are levels of obesity that 50 years ago, would have been considered extremely rare. Much of it is directly tied into the food-stream and the availability of cheap sugar substitutes. There may be a viral element, as well.
But I see a lot of approaches to solving this problem as gimmicky, grabby, and basically wrong. My way might work for some, but not for others. But when there’s a Will- yes, there is a way. I’m living proof.
March 7th, 2012 at 1:14 am
Thanks, Sunfell. And congratulations. I believe my source of motivation is similar to yours. Not magic per se, but when I don’t do it only for myself, I do it as a priest of Lugh.
March 2nd, 2012 at 5:55 am
Hmmm – I’m very interested by this as I would say that at the age of 32 I personally am obese as a direct result of dieting. I was brought up in a family that was extremely concerned about girls being slim, where being overweight was perceived as the worst fate for a girl or woman. I was naturally a very skinny child, but was put on a diet for the first time by my mother at the age of 11 when I gained a little pre-puberty puppy fat. I think I lost about 5 pounds on that first diet, but it started what became a lifelong cycle of dieting and then regaining more weight than I lost on the diet. I developed a binge eating problem and began to feel completely out of control around food.
My teens and early 20s were spent wildly swinging between periods of trying to get my weight under control, which quickly escalated to starving myself and sometimes making myself vomit, and periods of binge eating. By my early 20s, I was just at the top end of the ‘normal’ weight range for my height, but beneath the surface I was a desperately sick and unhappy woman. I saw a psychologist and stopped starving myself and vomiting, but I still felt too big and my father in particular still bullied me about my weight and told me I was going to die of diabetes or a heart attack if I didn’t get “thin”. I replaced the anorexic behaviours with so-called “sensible” dieting – WeightWatchers, calorie counting and so on – but each diet would last only so long before an uncontrollable urge to binge would build up. I would quickly put on the weight I’d lost on the diet plus another 5 to 10 pounds. My weight kept going up and up.
I’m not an idiot. By the time I was about 30 pounds overweight I realised that the dieting was triggering the binging, especially once I started to read fat acceptance and health at every size material. And I quickly discovered that if I didn’t diet, my weight didn’t fluctuate at all – I only gained in the immediate aftermath of a diet. I started to have patches of making peace with myself and my eating and in those patches my weight stayed steady. But every so often, with pressure from family, magazines, doctors, boyfriends, watching friends who went on a diet and lost some weight (before they gained it back)… I would be tempted back over to the dark side. I’d think, I can lose some weight if I do it in a healthy way. I’d go back to Weight Watchers. I’d drop a dress size or two. And then the binge eating would pop up again like the monster at the end of the horror film that you thought was dead… to the point where I’m now 90 pounds heavier than I was in college. And 20 pounds heavier than I was at the beginning of last year, when I made my last serious attempt at dieting. Do I now wish that I hadn’t dieted last year and had been happy to stay at 70 pounds over my college weight? Yes I do. Will the experience inspire me to resist the pressure to diet next time? I hope so but I’m not sure. That pressure is so overwhelming, even when I know that ultimately what’s healthy for me is to stay at the weight I’m at rather than try to reduce.
There are a lot of people like me out there. I think we should take a careful look at the obesity epidemic and think about why it has exploded in the first generations who were put on diets as children. When my grandmother was a child, nobody would have dreamed of putting a child on a weight reduction diet. Are we looking at the chicken or the egg?
March 7th, 2012 at 1:19 am
Liz, I’m sorry you’ve been given this burden. Thank you so much for sharing this with me.
March 2nd, 2012 at 4:29 pm
Educate you? Are you gonna pay me? Here’s the freebie: There is no actual proof of CAUSATION between weight and health problems. Correlation does not equal causation and many so-called “obesity related illnesses” are found in people wrongly considered “healthy weight.” (for instance I was per-diabetic and it wasn’t caught by my doctor because I was “too thin” to be showing the blood sugar levels I was). Dieting, however, DOES cause health problems. People can become fit and healthy without weight loss, while their health might be damaged by attempting to lose weight, This is why I’m a Health At Every Size personal trainer.
You might want to check in in 5 years, if you’ve kept the weight off you’re in about a 5% minority. If you haven’t, that’s okay, if you’ve maintained your activity level then your body has simply sought out it’s own, healthy, norm. Just keep active, you can stay healthy.
But I’m not going to spend more time here, why not educate yourself? Try:
http://www.haescommunity.org/
http://healthateverysizeblog.wordpress.com/
http://danceswithfat.wordpress.com/
All have lots of information and lead to other sources, but I do find the last to be the most fun, I just love Ragen.
March 2nd, 2012 at 5:50 pm
I am very glad that you are pleased with losing and weight and feel better as a result.
I am a fat woman. I am not ashamed of it, like many people think I should be. I did not get this way from eating pies all day or refusing to exercise. I eat and act pretty normally.
But even if I did stuff my face with pies and cookies and cupcakes all day like many people tend to insinuate, let me ask you one question:
Since when did it become everyone else’s business?
If I choose to stay this way, and I die, that is my choice. Not yours. And thinking that bullying is okay so that I lose weight is bullshit. I don’t tell you what I think of you and your body if I see you on the street – and truly, I actually find stick-skinny bodies very unattractive – but I don’t ridicule anyone who has one. Why would I? I am not mean-spirited and it’s not my business, anyway.
Life is tough enough for anyone without everybody and their sister thinking it’s perfectly fine to toss a mean comment your way just because they can. It’s just not nice, it’s not polite, and it’s just plain rude.
You may not like how I look. You might even find me downright repulsive. That’s your business, and I honestly don’t care. I probably don’t like how you look either. But would I make fun of you and ridicule you for it? No. Because I’m a nice person and that’s the decent thing to do.
March 2nd, 2012 at 6:51 pm
nel, I know it’s hard to separate the good people from the bad when you endure so much stigma from, well, sometimes it seems like everyone.
I just wanted to say, though, that I am a fat woman, and I actually know Drew. He has never said word one about my weight or anyone else’s. In fact, if he did, I would gape at him in shock. Then I would attempt to beat the crap out of him.
I also know that it’s pretty unlikely that you’re going to come back to this thread. I can see you’ve been burned before, and I’m sorry. But I add this to also help others who comment.
I, personally, in five years of knowing the man, have heard him say some pretty stupid shit. Not once has it been about someone’s weight.
March 2nd, 2012 at 10:22 pm
Hi, Drew,
I was directed to your blog by a friend. I’m hoping you will find my comments helpful.
I think it’s too simplistic to sum up Fat Acceptance by saying it means it’s okay that my friend weighs 300 lbs. What it means is that if my friend weighs 300 lbs, it’s his responsibility. He owns it. It’s his right to make his own decisions about it. It’s not my place to shame, blame, ridicule, punish or bully him, or even to force on him a heartfelt “educational” talk. Just the same as I don’t like people hurting or bullying me about what they consider to be my flaws. I hate when my relatives criticize my spirituality, for example. They even tried to do an exorcism on me once in hopes I would leave my religion for theirs. Very hurtful, all in the name of them “helping” me with something that is rightfully my own decision.
What I might do for my friend is invite him to stroll around the art museum with me, or other activity he might enjoy. If he mentions his doctor has suggested a low-carb diet, I might say, “Well, that sounds like fun. Maybe we can set up the grill and barbeque some chicken.” If he wants to talk about his weight, I can listen. Best of all, I can just treat him with respect and dignity and kindness.
I’ve had my own struggles with weight throughout my life. I once applied my rather strong willpower, that weight-loss remedy everybody’s always talking about, to starve myself until I lost 65 lbs in a college semester — and I ended up in the hospital with hypothermia because my body could no longer regulate its temperature. I collapsed at a bus stop and almost died. It was extremely unhealthy and not at all worth it.
Oh, I also want to mention that according to Gallup, obesity levels stabilized in 2010. I’m not saying they’re not high, but the idea that they are still rising at an alarming rate is part of the hype which keeps the diet industry rolling.
I’m hoping that even if you don’t agree that my 300 lb friend being 300 lbs is okay, that you at least accept that it is his responsibility, and don’t bully, shame or hurt him in any way. Anyone who does has to deal with me. That’s another thing I can do for him.
March 2nd, 2012 at 10:53 pm
Hi Iced! Welcome to Rogue Priest. Thank you for such a thoughtful reply. The way you put it really helps. And I’m glad to hear about those Gallup results!
March 3rd, 2012 at 10:10 am
There are so many things I’d like to say in response to your post. Please excuse me if I repeat some of the points that have been raised by previous commenters.
First, the underlying premise behind your your statement regarding “overcoming adversity” and “achieving something hard” is that old chestnut: anyone can do “it” (it being in this case weight loss) if they only try hard and work consistently. Put another way, we are all the ultimate masters of our own universe–as an individual, the only thing holding you back is yourself.
There is certainly some truth to this idea, but there is a lot of myth too. I’m sure Mitt Romney feels that he deserves all the money that he has, that he has worked hard for it, and that anyone could be in his shoes if they only worked as hard as he did. In other words, the “silver spoon” is all a figment of our imagination.
I would say this “anyone can do it–after all I did and lived to tell the tale!” myth applies extremely well to weight loss.
Our society runs on the ultimate lie, or, as Dr. Arya Sharma (a leading expert in bariatrics with whom I don’t always agree), puts it: the “nightmare on ELMM Street” (eat less – move more). Even Dr. Sharma, a proponent of weight loss, recognizes that this simplistic notion is not at all accurate or useful in helping people to lose weight.
Then there’s Dr. Steven Blair, who has worked for decades on the relationship between weight and health. He’s the “30 minutes of moderate exercise a day” man whose own studies and in-depth review of countless other scientific studies has led him to the conclusion that “overweight” people who participate in regular physical activity are just as healthy and live just as long as those in the “normal” weight range.
Weight (gain/loss/maintenance) is one of the trickiest areas of health that we have ever seen. You, Drew, have found the formula that works for you. Congratulations. But assuming that it applies to everyone is just as wrong-headed as assuming (as I could, given my own personal history with learning French) that anyone can learn to speak a foreign language as an adult and master it to the point where they can be mistaken for a native speaker. Tried doing that recently? Know anyone who’s succeeded?
I have always been at least chubby. In recent years, I have gained further weight due to several factors that do NOT include sitting on my duff, stuffing my face with bonbons or bingeing uncontrollably at the drop of a hat. No one ever asked a rose bush to turn into a sequoia, or a terrier to turn into a greyhound, yet it is my fault that my build is short and squat. It is my fault that when I traveled through Europe in my mid-twenties with my best friend, eating the same foods, walking the same distances (and believe me, we walked miles and miles with heavy backpacks on our backs), she lost weight while I gained.
My husband, who is no slim Jim, quietly decided to change a few habits. He stopped drinking one (just one!) medium-sized glass of unsweetened fruit juice every evening and substituted one or two large glasses of water. He began eating more slowly, taking smaller forkfuls of food and cut down or eliminated second helpings most of the time. He started using the elliptical trainer twice a week for about a half an hour at a time. He did NOT change anything else in his diet. He did not start counting carbs, eliminate bread, deny himself the odd dessert. He continued walking approximately one half hour a day. In other words, the changes he made were minimal and pretty much painless. One year later, at his yearly check-up, the doctor said he looked ten years younger. He refuses to weigh himself, but he has definitely tightened his belt by several notches and really needs to buy some new dress pants. I, on the other hand, continue to watch everything that I eat and beat myself up if I eat a few dried apricots. Due to some physical problems, the only exercise I can do is walking and even then, I can’t walk fast or terribly far. I can barely keep my weight stable.
So congratulations to you, my friend. And if it were so easy for everyone, I wouldn’t be here chewing your ear off.
I won’t even go into issues such as the fact that we must respect everyone’s choices or that NOTHING can be determined by simply looking at a person (there are lots of thin people who eat very poorly, but no one berates them). I can only say that personally I believer in HAES (health at every size), and that I encourage all people to eat mostly healthy foods (I bet even the saintly Michael Pollan eats a bite of cake from time to time!) and regualrly engage in enjoyable physical activity to the best of their abilities. Sorry if that’s not sexy enough and won’t give me (or my husband) washboard abs, but it’s probably the best recipe for general good health that can be applied to the population as a whole.
March 7th, 2012 at 1:25 am
Thanks for such a detailed response NewMe.
I have to take issue with your comment: “Congratulations… and it it were so easy for everyone…”
This reaction has come from a number of FA advocates here and elsewhere. Apparently, since I am one of the people who is able to use calorie reduction and exercise to successfully keep off weight, it must have been “easy.”
I guess I would say that’s just as big of a myth as the idea that everyone can lose weight.
March 7th, 2012 at 9:11 am
OK, Drew. Point well taken.
Let me re-phrase: …and if it were reasonably possible for everyone…
In other words, if it were possible, thanks to a workable lifestyle change (and not obsessive, highly disordered eating that must be enforced every day, nay every moment, for the rest of your life and even then, you will probably gain some if not all the weight back and probably end up heavier than you were when you started your journey…)
So you see, Drew, I have nothing against hard work. But “hard work” is easy compared to “it’s just not feasible for most people on a long-term basis no matter how hard they try”.
One thing that I haven’t seen discussed here (and forgive me if I missed it, is the role of gender in the weight conundrum. Men are naturally more muscular than women. Even an overweight man still has more muscle than an overweight woman. Muscle at rest burns more calories than fat. So men have a natural advantage when it comes to weight loss. Furthermore, if a woman tries to radically reduce her fat levels, she will lose her period and become infertile. The larger percentage of fat that even “normal” weight women carry compared to men is essential to the propagation of the species.
And let’s not forget that menopause usually makes weight loss even harder for women.
The bottom line is that there is no comparison between how hard it is to lose (and keep off) weight as a woman and as a man. I would venture to say that the challenges for the average woman are unbelievably higher.
March 11th, 2012 at 2:32 pm
I agree with that, and have often been grateful for my muscle-building abilities in my process of losing weight.
March 28th, 2012 at 8:31 am
WI agree that it is great to make ppl feel good about themselves and nott judge everyone based on the same standard of beauty. But beauty/attractiveness and health/fitness are two seperate issues.
America is ADDICTED to food. Not just to food… But to unhealthy poisonous food that makes it so that for the first time in years, kids today have a SHORTER LIFE EXPECTANCY than their parents. I refuse to “accept” that. I think that instead of opening up more plus size clothing stores, making seats and revolving doors bigger to accommodate our growing size, we need to figure out why this is happening and DO something abt it. In a healthy way… Society either wants you to hate yourself & spend billions on BS diet food, pills & spanx or to “accept” it and keep killing yourself with the poison we are all addicted to. That way food corporations and the FDA don’t have to talk about the ridiculously low standards for regulating what you can give to ppl & call it “food.” This is an AMERICAN issue bc we are all abt “freedom” and free markets and “ill eat whatever I wantt, f-u government!” But other countries with much higher life expectancies have regulations about what they can put into food! And don’t get me started on “portion size!”
May 29th, 2012 at 12:16 am
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February 11th, 2013 at 8:49 pm
Wow i am really impressed by your article, i was wondering may i use your article in my upcoming book, by your kind permission??
February 11th, 2013 at 10:50 pm
Adelaide, that depends on what the book is about. Please email me at drew@roguepriest.net and let’s discuss.